Quite obviously due to the issues raised by this website the safety and success of all nesting peregrines and other birds of prey in the Bowland area is our paramount concern. The safety and security of these birds will not under any circumstances be put at jeopardy by our group and we keep an avid keen eye on them to try and deter any unsavoury folk from perpetrating acts of persecution along with our scientific research (scientific research is not any sort of direct experiments, so don’t be alarmed. The recording of sites, eggs laid, chicks hatched and chicks fledged is the scientific ‘bit’).
It was debated by the group for quite sometime as to how “safe” and how much of a good idea putting together a website with site images on was. However with meticulous planning and careful consideration we decided that so long as no link to the birds sites were available or displayed in images (i.e. landmarks/signs etc) then the detailed diary of the seasons events could only help in bringing the fight for these birds safety into the public eye. And at the same time hopefully spurring on and supporting bodies like the police to do more about suspected crimes committed.
The peregrines at site 1 on United Utilities have more than one frequented site in the area. Although it is common knowledge that all birds of prey, peregrines included, can often frequent different sites year on year this can also be linked directly to persecution.
Many things can effect it, including the weather, season extremes, change in the area (land slide for example during winter months while not occupied) and quite obviously how secluded the site is. As far away from any type of disturbance – be it human or animal, the better for the birds chance of success.
Site 1 is a superb site; it really is quite breath-taking. But unfortunately, even though the site is located on the flag ship land of United Utilities, it has far from made it exempt from persecution.
In 2007 the site was recorded as having 3 eggs. Field workers visited the site later in the year and found 2 out of 3 eggs had successfully produced young.
Field workers were then advised/asked to ring the 2 young accompanied by a BTO ringer, by the RSPB United Utilities representative for the area at the time.
On approach to the site the 2 field workers proceeded very cautiously as with their binoculars they could quite clearly see someone approximately 1/4 of a mile from the peregrine eyrie. After spotting the two field workers with a pair of binoculars the individual then promptly carried on their way, away from the site.
When the field workers reached the site there was only 1 chick to be seen. The chick was quickly ringed and then a search of the surrounding area carried out. No other chick was found. Both chicks had been reported healthy and in good shape when last inspected by the RSPB.
In 2008 much the same scenario. 3 eggs laid, 2 chicks produced. Again, when going to ring the 2 healthy chicks, another individual, well known to the group was witnessed coming down the track which leads from the site. A quick conversation revealed the individual concerned knew of the site (it had moved this year, from previous years site which we believe due to direct interference/persecution) and informed the field workers there was not 2 chicks but only 1.
Sure enough there was only 1 chick in the eyrie again, after 2 healthy chicks were again reported previously by the RSPB and other field workers. The chick was ringed and the immediate area searched for the missing chick. No signs. 1 chick does not simply disappear and it is not natural predation either as both young would have gone.
Both incidents were reported to the appropriate RSPB official but no follow up ever occurred. It was put down simply as, “failure”.
Anyway, enough of putting a downer on things. Now the good news; this year the site holds 4 very fit, very healthy and very fat young peregrines at approximately 14 days old who were letting me know very loudly that I was not welcome to be at their site. However a quick couple of photos, inspection of the site and the young and we quickly made away to leave them to it.
I am glad to be able to report 4 healthy young. A very keen eye will be being kept on this site this season. Nothing less than 4 fledged peregrines is acceptable here this year.
We will keep you posted on any developments at this site and all the others on the website the moment we get any more information.
When any well developed young suddenly and mysteriously dissapear from nesting sites without reason, questions must be asked. Throughout the Forest of Bowland immature birds, (peregrine and hen harrier) known to have been in previously good health one day, but gone the next, is something that is taking place all too often.
I only hope the FOUR young falcons photographed in their nest by concerned scientists on United Utilities property are left alone to fledge this year.
i would like peoples opinions on the justification of ringing certain species at all. yes, i could see the benefits years ago but doubt the need for most species to be disturbed for this high disturbance low return activity? i worked on a film project years ago in scotland with an american resercher working on golden eagles, i honestly cant remember the figures he mentioned but do remember that the number of eagle chicks ringed was huge over a very long period of time, and the number of rings recovered INCREDABLY small.so my question is, is the amount of disturbance by ringers and other licensed “proffesionals” justified by the tiny returns? i dont think so. what can we now possably learn about the movements of species like peregrines or golden eagles that we dont allready know? most of these birds are illegally removed from the wild population anyway and the rings never rang in, so why? i honestly feel that most,(not all) bto ringing is just a justifiable “hobby” for most ringers and that the level of disturbance by some of these licensed people is acctually really unjustified and totally un nessesary. as a falconer but avid raptor watcher/protectionist, it really saddens me to go to an eyrie to find deliberate and pointless disturbance at a nest from people who un bloody believably have a license to disturb. if it was just me on my own, id get prosecuted for it!its easy and fine for some to say , oh were from the such and such peregrine protection group and that makes it ok, but what are they acctually doing? disturbing the birds , thats what. there are ways of monitoring/watching nests without having to be on top of them and entering them to weigh, measure and record every detail. its just a tottally unacceptable amount of disturbance for my liking.and a pointless exercise. comments please.
At Barbaryboy;
At first i can kind of see where you are comming from with the comments you have made.
However there is a BUT.
Firstly you mention how “INCREDABLY small” in number the amount of rings are that are “recovered”? I don’t quite understand this statement? the 2 soul purposes of ringing as far as i am aware is to A)identify the individual bird that are rung. From species, to sex and location of initial ‘ringing’ and B) to identify said bird again on its travels to use the data for scientific research? Showing the movements of said bird.
A good example of this is the Tern that showed up (or should i say leg of a tern) at derby cathedral. The Tern had been rung in scandinavia or somewhere like and fully identified. Even down to age, 6 years old. With the Tern being rung it gave a great eye opener into the travels and movements of that single bird and possibly the species in general. Movements that could well be directly linked with climate change. Thus aiding consovationists in their understanding of the birds to help preserve them against things like climate change.
It is a real shame the bird came to its end as every time the bird and said ring was whitnessed by anyone with the appropriate equipment (scope/binoculars) the sighting and ring number could be reported to the BTO or RSPB and give detailed points of movements of said bird. Granted observing the ring number of the tern above other birds would be very tricky due to their size but no detail could have been recorded at all after its death had it not been rang.
The ring on a golden eagle would be visible and possible to read quite clearly with binoculars or a scope as me and you both well know so i don’t quite understand your termenology of “recovered”??!!
“is the amount of disturbance by ringers and other licensed “proffesionals” justified by the tiny returns?” – answer i think is an OBVIOUS yes to most people. Had this website not provided you with the data for the past 35 years for the peregrine falcon in Bowland would you truely, and honestly really have even the smallest clue as to just how persecuted these birds are? If your answer is yes then I’m sorry i find it very hard to believe because even my self, who knows full well what goes on on game shoots was truely shocked by the figures? have you actually read and seen the figures???? Years where success rates are 0% out of numerous different nesting attempts???
I’ve had the privelage of knowning a licensed BTO volunteer in the past (maybe the guys who make this website may know him? I’m not going to broadcast his name as its not right but he covered game shoots in Yorkshire?) The reason i mention this barbaryboy is because I know you mentioned somewhere about even the protectionists not knowing just how much persecution occurs only the game keepers truely know? Well I remember having many conversations with this guy about his travels and it turned out that although keepers knew of 90 – 95% of nests, there were always a handful that they themselves did not know about. The game keepers have a job to do and as much as they want rid of any raptors affecting stock they can not afford to spend all day every day out looking for new sites. I dont think you have such a clear understanding of just how much these licensed “professionals” actually know. I think its a lot more than you really comprehend. Not saying that to be funny mate or cause any problems, but you paint a picture with your words of a bunch of amatuers stumbling over nesting grounds and disturbing birds… I’m pretty sure there is more to these guys than that. Infact i know there is, as the guy i used to know had more knowledge about wild raptors than any governing body, or respected body could tell you. More than game keepers and tickers alike. More so than falconers. As much as an understanding about raptors as many falconers do have, it does not extend to the wild cousins who are a complete differnt kettle of fish. Sorry to say it but look at Lantra, a supposed “governing” body for falconry. If the wider public practise what lantra preech then jeese, it paints a bad picture for falconry does it not?!
You also say “it really saddens me to go to an eyrie to find deliberate and pointless disturbance at a nest from people who un bloody believably have a license to disturb”! Again can you expand on this more??? If their is direct evidance of inteference by anybody, be it licensed workers or anybody, this needs reporting to the police surely? What kind of inteference are you talking about???
Barbaryboy have you thought what might happen should volunteers like the folks putting this website together are prevented from undertaking their licensed work??? I doubt their is a clear answer for that but boy oh boy, for my self someone who loves all raptors, the prospect is a very scary thought! I wonder how the birds got on in the foot and mouth years when all access to England’s uplands was stopped??? I guarantee it did not stop Mr.Game keeper however!!!!!
To all the folks out their carrying out the volunteer work, keep it up, our future heritage owes you a great debt indeed. Its very easy for people to forget the DDT era and chronically low numbers of the 60′s…! You have my vote!
i applaud the work carried out by these unpaid volunteers and only wish i could become one of them. however i stand by my initial statement, the numbers of birds rung compared to the numbers returned and the usefullness of the information gained do’s not, to me justify the amount of disturbance involved. and i stand by that.
i have looked at the bto web site but cant find what im looking for. i would love the bto to tell us how many eagle nests were disturbed to ring the young. how many were rung, over how many years, then let us know how many rings were recovered, then? is the information really worth the amount of disturbance. i personnaly doubt it?
i agree , the foot and mouth era must have been a memorable year for keepers! however in answer to your question, of course if it wasnt for the volunteers there would be more disturbance/persecution,but why should some of these licensed people have the right to disturb when it is just not justified, nessessary or acceptable? but it happens regularly . i came across a peregrines nest a few years ago by the screaming of the parents, i thought they were either being robbed or rung. imagine my dismay when i arrived at the site to find a couple of blokes with a really poor attitude and sitting right in front of the nest with much better vantage points close by, they really were unknowledgable pratts to say the least and their attitude towards me left a lot to be desired to say the least, but they were the ones in the wrong, anyway after a long altercation in front of the eyrie i left and complained to my local wild life liason officer who got back to me to say they were on a license to disturb? which means they could basically do what they wanted. WRONG TOTALLY WRONG these guys were complete(how can i say it without swearing) unknowledgable and full of their own 8888888 importance but were unnessesarily disturbing this pair of peregrines.there was plenty of alternatives to hide and protect this pair, the thing that really got me was there lack of basic knowledge of what was really going on at this site, they were quite obviously just raw recruits who really new very little about peregrines.sadly a lot of these “volunteers” seem to be recruited from local bird clubs, museums and various local wildlife groups without any basic field craft skills, knowledge of the species being monitored or any other appropriate skills. but they are deemed “trustworthy” yet as a very knowledgable and experienced raptor enthusiast i am prohibited from being involved, as a practising falconer “obviously” my only motive for wanting to be involved in the protection of raptors is to rob the nests?????????
and by the way LANTRA is not a governing body of falconry, it is a two bit stupid worthless course that do’s not have the backing of the falconry community.
yes keepers dont know every nest site on their beat but trust me, keepers,falconers,egg collectors and others know about many more sites than you may give them credit for. i know of peregrine sites in northumberland that the authorities DEFINATLY dont know about. some people dont want them to know, not for bad reasons, they just dont want the hassle of having people swarming all over their land messing about with them and enjoy having their own personal pair of peregrines all to them selves to enjoy without the needless hassle of involving the “experts”. i honestly believe it is time to “back off” from certain species in certain areas as there is now no good or justifiable reason to persecute these birds any longer in the name of conservation, not in every case of course.
i have managed to obtain the example figures i was looking for, direct from the bto so they are official not mine.
taking the british golden eagle as an example, apparrently 1270 eagles were rung up to 1977 only 55 of them were recovered?
what serious scientific information of any real benefit was realised from these 55 birds? i personally dont believe that the disturbance of a 1000 eagles nests justifies this, to me, insignificant return. i am not being antagonistic and want all sensitive species monitored and duely protected, most of these recognised bodies do some outstanding work and i do believe there is a vital role for the ringing and marking of certain species at times, i just feel that in a lot of cases it appears to be allmost like a wild racing pigeon hobby, seeing who’s bird travels the furthest. i think that if someone can put forward a good scientific argument to ring certain birds then fair enough, but the vast majority of wild birds rung for my money is unjustified stress and disturbance for no real worthwhile end.
Maybe to some extents barbaryboy you may well be right. Do you know when the data starts from? You say its 1270 eagles up to 1977 but when did they actually commence ringing???
I strongly believe that up to the time periods you are stating ringing and close monitoring by the small minoritys dedicated to them was most defently neccessary as raptor persecution was rife.
Even now to this day there is still major issues. If my memory serves me correct out of 7 sea eagles released at mull, 3 of them were found poisoned. And golden eagles being posioned is also an other major concern, especially in the scottish borders.
Maybe as you say, certain species in certain areas are not in direct need of moderating. For example the Buzzard. It has been left well alone over the past 5 years and now the numbers of them are starting to show. I am sure as you say ringing these birds wouldn’t really have any benifit. These birds are spreading and inhabiting pastures new which is only a good thing.
However, in areas like bowland like this website talks about i believe it to not only be neccessery, but imperative.
It is obvious what is occuring on the game moors. Game keepers watching the dwindling numbers of grouse year up on year are fed up with loosing their cash cow, their job, their living. As i direct result the game keepers legally remove all vermin to give the grouse optimum conditions to rear…
It just so happens however that the grouse share the moors with Peregrine and Hen harrier. As much as the game keepers could do without them, both species are schedule 1 protected birds.
It must be the only job in the country where you get paid for breaking the law.
Lets be honest, why is it fair for a game keeper to destory these birds yet people like you, or me would get hung drawn and quartered for being within a mile radious of a site????
So in answer to your point barbaryboy, i believe ringing and close monitoring in bowland to be imperative. If game keepers know there are people keeping a close eye it may just be enough to stop them doing more damage than they already do.
What are your views???
as long as game shooting remains a legal and legitimate pastime and remember it generates jobs and a substantial amount of income in certain areas! then there will be serious persecution of raptors. FACT. so as soon as certain authourities wake up to this fact and come to a reasonable compromise the better.they can “protect” and “monitor” all they like, but nothing will change, gamekeepers attitudes HAVE NOT CHANGED despite what they will all say, so what is realistically to be done? a certain amount of wild take would help as many keepers are allready willing to help out falconers for a price. we may have to accept that if game rearing/shooting is to continue and support our rural comunities that a limited legal cull or removal of certain species would be required. after all if it wasnt for falconers we wouldnt now have several hundred pairs of goshawks nesting wild in the uk. but are totally unavailable to them so keepers are killing hundreds of them every year! what a waste. falconers/keepers and bird protectionists could all be united if they all agreed to be reasonable about sensable measures regarding all interests, unfortunatly the protectionists are adamant about total protection at any cost, and basically its not working?
Maybe you have a valid point their barbary boy. I too agree that should you befriend a kepper, moneys could exchange hands and before you know it you have whatever wild take you fancied. I also agree that a unison needs to be struck between all parties to come to some sort of agreement which is beneficial for all.
I think however it needs to be made clear. Inteference with any schedule 1 bird is an illegal offence which can be punishable via a custodial sentence.
Why should these birds have to suffer in the pursuit of “fun” by the shooting fraternity? Why should there future have to be met ‘half-way’ with the likes of gaming estates?
The end of the day the schedule one species are protected by law. Fact.
Shooting does generate huge revenues and create jobs however grouse shooting and grouse moors are far from the being the main cash cow/job provided in that industry.
Grouse shoots do provide substantial cash in theory, as many will know it is an extremly expensive past time. However the state of the grouse population (dwindling) and the ready availabilty of pheasant and partidge shoots has detracted from the once legendry grouse shoot and the glorious 12th. Again, as derek ratcliff once said ‘if the grouse game moors don’t wish to play ball they can stop grouse shooting all together’
I think the one saving grace of all this is that 25 years time from now red grouse them selves may well be protected birds and with a bit of luck grouse shooting banned all together.
I would love to see the figures for the following season once the ban had beem implemented and Mr.Game keeper given his P45!
definatly, m8! if grouse shooting were ever to be banned moorland raptor numbers would go through the roof for a fact. but it wont be? not for a very long time, the anti’s have thier sites set on loads more easier targets than the super rich grouse shooting fraternity, i am just totally bamboozeled by why falconers/keepers raptor groups/ rspb etc.. etc.. etc.. cant work together for the mutuall benefit of our wild birds?
why is ringing the peregrines in bowland “imperative”? monitoring them, watching them and protecting them from afar, yes, but why ring them?
when i quoted the bto figures for ringing eagles i was just trying to make a point. i stongly believe that all raptors must enjoy the full protection of the law. but i question the reasons for ringing them? why? what usefull new knowledge can we glean from finding out that eagle b24 was hatched at lock square sausage and recovered at ben bighill?
if these people put thier time into watching them from a safe distance rather than “deliberatly disturbing ” them then we might have more settled and relaxed pairs producing more offspring. we all know what the biggest problems facing our raptors are so why arnt we addressing them instead of trying to build up mountains of useless paperwork full of wonderfull facts and figures which acctually mean naff all?
I did a bit of research into why ringing is such an important issue. I’m sure this sight could probably tell us/vouch for this any way but it makes complete sense.
This wesbite brings attentions to the goings on in bowland. But this applies to bowland and any other part of the world to where birds are rang.
Firstly as you mentioned the ringing helps show how different bird species ‘move’ around the county and the globe. Shy of expensive and hardly practical tracking/telemetry is replaced for somthing a lot simpler and cost effective – rings.
When said bird turns up or is spotted with the ring (dead or alive) it gives a good indication as to how and where that bird had moved/traveled to and from where.
For example as you have mentioned, the golden eagle. showing where it moves from and too and their territoires. Giving a good understanding of their habbits and how to support them.
Secondly and i think quite vitaly they show how the birds succeed once fledged.
For example did you know that 60% of peregrine falcons don’t make it past their first 18months. Due to many things from persecution to not being able to hunt/survive adequately.
Scientific data like this is gravely important so that future conservastion work can be undertaken to gurantee/help the future generations of raptors and other wild birds in this country and the world.!
Admins comment is quite reasuring and to be honest, expected. I didn’t really believe a site like this with the knowledge and expertise behind it would be visiting mentioned sites on a regular basis!
depends on which author you have read? many say 80% in thier 1st year? i stand by my opinion that this protection work could be carried out in most species without the need to ring.