I’ve been reading this thread on the British Farming Forum. Wasn’t expecting a very informed or factual debate given previous efforts on
that forum but I think you’ll agree that lines have been crossed here with calls for the illegal killing of this protected species.
Jimmy
Sea Eagles are getting a terrible press from self interested, ignorant farmers who have as much wit and wisdom on these matters as Boggis, Bunce & Bean in The Fantastic Mr Fox. We need to set up a petition that will support their re-introduction back here in England, particularly the Norfolk / Suffolk coast. Those backward thinking morons deserve to be crapped on by these beautiful birds!
Take a better look at who are the morons here – could it be those who release large birds of prey into areas where their food supply dried up many years ago without any thought as to how they are to survive?
Hi
I initiated the original question on the forum following news on our local biodiversity website of the release of more young sea eagles into an area which has already seen well problems including injury to a human being by a sea eagle. The RSPB representative replied to set my mind at rest; but far from doing this it set the alarm bells ringing as the reply was so obviously in denial; the wound, which needed stitching, was dismissed as a scratch and the attack was dismissed as the work of inexperienced young bird; just like the inexperienced young birds which are presently being released. The protection offered by the RSPB – plastic netting – was clearly inadequate; I doubt that it would stop a bird of this size and strength, nor could you protect a whole field.
I posted on the farmer’s forum to see if this was just a one-off incident. Clearly it is not.
The man’s pet goose was ripped to pieces. These are Toulouse gees; HUGE birds; bigger than a baby – taller than a young child. If a young sea eagle can target domestic animals of this size – and the RSPB didn’t tell us this – it is, quite frankly, dangerous, irresponsible and idiotically idealistic to re-introduce them without some control other than hunger, which will push these birds into ever closer contact with humans, their livestock and their young children.
Editor’s Comment, Elaine cars kill and cause terrible damages to hundreds of thousands of human beings each year, should we take all vehicles off the roads?
Editor’s Comment, Elaine cars kill and cause terrible damages to hundreds of thousands of human beings each year, should we take all vehicles off the roads?
No – but we should control them!
Editor’s Comment. Why, when they are an important part of the natural environment?
Editor, this is a very good point.
Cars are tightly regulated. Car design has to fulfil very tight criteria for safety both of passengers and of the public.
People are made RESPONSIBLE for their cars and for their own actions in driving them. Cars which are felt unduly hazardous ARE taken off the roads. (MOT and all that.) Drivers whose driving behaviour is incompetent or inappropriate are also taken off the roads and obliged to pay for the damage caused as far as possible, whether in money or in the loss of their freedom. Meanwhile ALL drivers, however good they are, are obliged to carry insurance in case they accidentally cause loss or injury to third parties.
Cars are only permitted to drive in certain places and young, inexperienced drivers are supervised until they have shown their competence by passing a test.
Maybe this is the time to ask whether the RSPB is adequately insured for, say, an attack by a bird released by themselves on someone’s child and whether they have taken any steps to make these birds wary and respectful of humans and farm stock (see the discussion re. coyotes on the forum you mentioned). In the event of repeated attacks by a particular bird that learns that humans are an easy option, what steps are being taken to remove or control this bird?
This is a small island; we all have to get along together somehow and many of our interactions with each other and with the environment are far from ideal, but the sort of gross irresponsibility and disregard for the others apparently shown by the RSPB in this case is unnecessary and inappropriate.
Editor’s Comment. Elaine cars were never a part of the natural world in which we all live. On the other hand the sea eagle has always been an important part of a healthy ecosystem and was only exterminated in Britain because of man’s ignorance, greed and selfishness; little it seems has changed. In countries like Poland, withing most rural communities, farming is still undertaken by individual families in their own gardens along side their chickens, ducks, pigs sheep and the like all without any problems. There are now well over 900 breeding pairs of sea eagles in Poland and yet there is now discontent in parts of the highlands because we have just a small handful of these birds. Why should there be controls when such measures would be completely inappropriate.
Under those circumstances I would be examining the two situations and trying to find out the differences between them. I doubt that there is a great difference in the attitude of the people; small farmers are small farmers the world over and the people hardest hit by these releases seem to be crofters, farming on a very small scale and close to home.
Firstly; area. How big is Poland and how big are the Scottish Highlands? 900 breeding pairs in Poland could well be better absorbed than a far smaller number in an area in which they have no recent historical niche.
Secondly; control. I believe Polish farmers are not subject to the same draconian laws regarding raptors as our crofters; if they need to control the population – perhaps just a particular bird that targets their stock – they can do so. We may not. The man whose pet geese were torn apart by a young sea eagle and who was himself attacked, was warned he mustn’t harm the sea eagle, whatever harm he or his livestock suffered.
Natural control may also be an issue. Our climate is not as harsh as that of Poland; here, only lack of food will limit the increase in numbers; before that happens there will be no small livestock left. In Poland, the harsher weather may play a part in achieving a balance.
Thirdly, the birds themselves. They do not appear to have the respect for man that one would expect in a wild animal. I wonder whether an early acclimatisation to humans – a picture by the RSPB shows a woman virtually cuddling a chick – has had a negative effect? I know my geese are tamer when handled as youngsters. I suspect that insufficient thought has been given to the way in which these birds are going to fit into the existing ecosystem and that the birds themselves are not the truly wild stock breeding in Poland.
These are just thoughts; I don’t know the Polish situation well enough to comment with authority; but clearly, what our crofters are suffering at present is distressing and unacceptable and differs from the Polish situation which you describe.
I would also say that I am impressed with your allowing me to discuss this on this forum; I did rather expect my post to be removed as it is clearly at odds with your own views, so thankyou for that.
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Editor’s Comment to MJ. Why, when they are an important part of the natural environment?
Editor’s Comment. Elaine cars were never a part of the natural world in which we all live. [/quote]
Well? Which is it? or does that depend on some circumstance of which I’m not aware?
A couple of years ago, I was fortunate to see a fantastic documentary:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00p051m
Part of the programme dealt with a family who lost their daughter to a Black Mamba bite. Did these people run around demanding “control”? Not at all! Although they were (naturally) afraid of the snakes, and grief stricken at the loss of their child, they showed incredible dignity and understanding that these animals were an important part of their environment.
What a contrast with the fatuous, selfish arguments put forward here.
Just to say that I have been trying to find out about these Polish eagles and I’m wrong about Polish farmers; in Poland there are even harsher penalties for killing or injuring sea eagles than here. But if the sea eagles need this degree of protection this suggests that all is not as rosy in the relationship between man and raptor as has been suggested here. It also seems that something is going wrong with the eagles’ sourcing of food in Britain; they are competing with golden eagles for land based prey, whereas this does not happen in Norway, seemingly.
Editor’s Comment, you are correct there are harsher penalties for killing/disturbing seas eagles in Poland, the National Emblem. For one thing nest sites are protected by a 500 m public exclusion zone during the breeding season, and a 200 m zone in the winter. Yes the polish take conservation seriously and it shows with their respect for these birds.
The human population density in Poland is only half that of the UK. I would doubt their seas have been as heavily fished either.
Judging by the breeding numbers of sea eagles in Poland they are not an endangered species and to release them in parts of the UK where there is no natural sea food for them is simply cruel and asking for problems to arise.
I notice there is no reply/comment on your forum to the person reporting Golden Eagles on Mull being killed by Sea Eagles.
Editor’s comment, Most SE in Poland predate on fish taken from lakes not the sea. We are unable to make people respond to articles if they do not wish to do so.
Editor’s comment, Most SE in Poland predate on fish taken from lakes not the sea. We are unable to make people respond to articles if they do not wish to do so.
Dear Ed,
I was hoping you or your team might have verified or otherwise the post about SE’s killing Goldies.
Re lake fish – obviously many more available in Poland than UK.
Editor’s Comment, Sorry MJ, we misunderstood. The details about sea eagles killing golden eagles may be difficult to verify, but we will check it out.
Sea-eagles diet consists of birds(gulls,cormorants),fish, rabbits etc. Carrion such as Seal carcasses is also important.All these food sources are readily availiable in most parts of the UK including Scotland. Despite the hysteria and wild claims directed against these birds from certain quarters, studies on the issue of lamb predation show that these eagles take very few if any live lambs.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8672303.stm